The Never Ending Sadam Trail

[Micron]

The trial of former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was set to resume Sunday amid what a rights group has called the Iraqi government's "interference with the independence of the judges in the trial."

Hussein's trial was postponed last Tuesday because a number of witnesses were unable to attend court.

The most recent delay is the latest in a case that has had just a handful of full trial days since the proceedings began three months ago. The delays have come amid changes in the makeup of the tribunal.

On Friday, Human Rights Watch issued a report stating that recent moves involving the judges threaten the "fairness of the proceedings" and raise "serious concerns about the court's ability to safeguard its independence."

President Judge Rizgar Mohammed Amin stepped down after being strongly criticized inside Iraq for allowing Hussein and his seven co-defendants to speak out of turn and make accusations against the court and the U.S. occupation.

"The demand for Presiding Judge Rizgar Amin's dismissal, which contributed to his resignation, was nothing less than an attack on judicial independence," Richard Dicker, director of the International Justice Program at Human Rights Watch, was quoted as saying.

The group said that criticism of Amin's work and demands for his dismissal have come from pro-ruling party parliament members.

"Nevertheless, at other times the same government officials insisted that the tribunal was independent of political pressure," the report said.

The Iraq's De-Baathification Commission then successfully challenged the appointment of Judge Saeed al-Hammashi as Amin's successor, claiming that al-Hammashi "was ineligible to sit on the court due to his alleged former membership in the Baath Party."

Dicker was quoted as saying the removal of al-Hammashi "created the appearance of a court that is continually subjected to political interference."

Human Rights Watch is concerned over "unconfirmed reports" that al-Hammashi was transferred from the trial as part of a political compromise "between the De-Baathification Commission, the Prime Minister's Office and the Iraqi High Tribunal."

"The resignation of Judge Amin and the transfer of Judge al-Hammashi mean that two of the five judges who have heard the witness testimony are now off the case," Dicker is quoted as saying. "It will be difficult for the new judges to impartially evaluate the testimony they missed, damaging the integrity of the trial."

Judge Raouf Rasheed Abdel-Rahman has been chosen to preside temporarily over the trial. Like Amin, Abdel-Rahman is Kurdish.

Abdel-Rahman is from Halabja, the site of the notorious gassing of Kurds during the notorious Anfal campaign in the 1980s. Hussein's involvement is to be dealt with by the war crimes tribunal.

Ramsey Clark, the former U.S. attorney general who now serves as a legal adviser to Hussein's defense team, said the latest delay in Hussein's war crimes trial provides "further evidence and strong evidence that the court's dysfunctional." He also said the court should be "abandoned."

"The trial has never been on track," Clark said on Tuesday. "What you have is pure chaos."

Clark described a court in disarray, claiming it operates inefficiently, has poor security, and lacks independence and know-how.

Hussein and the seven co-defendants face charges in the killings of more than 140 men and boys in Dujail in 1982. The killings occurred after an assassination attempt on Hussein.

The initial trial phase included testimony by townspeople describing government brutality and life-in-prison detention. Their somber accounts presented TV viewers across the globe with a stark description of life under Hussein's regime.

My discussion is this...

Why is it taking so long? Are there influences from organizations, or persons in power? Why not just ignore all the disruptions and get him tried for the scum that he really is?

Whats your view?

[xpgeek]

I have to quote right from CNN what happened this morning, haha

In the opening moments of the proceedings, which had been delayed five days while two new judges were seated, Rahman told the court that "political speeches" would not be tolerated. "Any accused who oversteps the line will be thrown out of court and will be tried in absentia," he said.

Hassan, Hussein's half brother and former chief of intelligence, began to challenge the court's legitimacy, calling it the "daughter of a whore."

"I will not allow you to insult this court," Abdel-Rahman said.

After an exchange, Hassan was forcibly removed from the courtroom. Several defense team lawyers stood, and one attorney began screaming at Abdel-Rahman, prompting the judge to say, "This is not a platform."

As the attorneys prepared to leave, the judge warned them that if they did so, they would not be allowed back inside the courtroom for any other sessions. But the defense attorneys -- among them Hussein's chief defense attorney -- walked out.

Hussein protested after Abdel-Rahman brought court-appointed defense attorneys in. "I don't want these lawyers, and if they insist on staying here, they are evil," he said.

He took umbrage, however, when Abdel-Rahman told him he was permitted to leave.

"You cannot force me to be in court," he said. "This is my right."

"For 35 years I have run your rights," Hussein said. "And I understand my right and the right of others interrupted by the judge. Therefore, allow me to leave the court. You said the defendant is innocent until proven guilty ... therefore, the defendant should be respected and be given full human rights, including the right to speak at court to defend himself."

Abdel-Rahman told Hussein he could leave, but if he did not, he would be thrown out.

The deposed leader eventually left the courtroom, along with two other defendants, leaving four defendants -- former Dujail Ba'ath Party officials -- seated in the courtroom as the court proceeded on to witness testimony.

The new judge has got balls I'll give him that. Part of the problem with the old judge was that he was so leniant because he was a little afraid, the insurgents loyal to saddam did only try to kill him twice I think. This new judge doesn't seem afraid at all, throwing them all the hell out of his court, lol.

[xpgeek]

lol it censored what he called the court, "Hassan, Hussein's half brother and former chief of intelligence, began to challenge the court's legitimacy, calling it the "daughter of a censored." The censored word is w-h-o-r-e, apearantly thats a pretty big insult in muslim culture.

[xpgeek]

On why its actually taking so long, being such a messy trial, is because its in Iraq. I get that the Iraqui people want him tried in Iraq, but how many lawyers for the prosecution have been assassinated now ? How many attempts have been made to kill the judges now ? And now theres witnesses not even bothering to show up, because they're afraid, the US troops obviously have very little control over the Insurgency, no one wants to be murdered for testifying against him. They need to move the trial outside of Iraq, where the safety of the lawyers and witness's can be garenteed, and, they need to take the damn cameras out of the court room. It should be a public trial, but it can't be, even if the trial is held in another country, and the lawyers and witness's are kept out of harms way, the Insurgents would just target their familys still in Iraq. And then theres the question of which country to hold the trial in if it was moved. The International War Crimes Tribunal court is in Switzerland, and the main reason the Iraqui people want the saddam trial in Iraq is Switzerland doesn't have the death penalty, which I've always thought was stupid. Not that Switzerland doesn't believe in the death penalty, thats their choice, that they'd put the War Crimes Tribunal in a country without it. It still angers me that Slobadon Malosavich gets to sit in a nice Swiss prison for the rest of his life, after making 2 or 3 million muslims disappear. He should have been hanged like the modern hitler that he was. This whole damn trial is a mess and practically a joke, but saddam is just trying to draw it out and make it last as long as possible, cause he knows he doesn't stand a snowballs chance in hell of being found not guilty.

[FisionChips]

Irrespective of what anyone thinks should happen to Hussein, he is entitled to a fair and just trial. If that principle is dispensed with, then the principles of a democratic and fair governance in Iraq are undermined, what will preside over Iraq will merely be a different version of what has goverened before.
I think it is clear that the court is dysfunctional and cannot, in its current disarray, guarantee a fair trial.
What should happen now is the establishment, if only for this sole hearing, of a middle-eastern court where judges from all countries in that area will sit and hear the evidence. At the very least justice would have a chance to prevail.

[xpgeek]

Saddam does deserve a fair trial I agree, I just don't think that can happen in Iraq. And for all the complaining he does that hes not getting one he is the main reason why hes not getting one. If Saddam really wants a fair trial, and actually believes in the principles of a fair trial, then he should make a statement asking the Insurgents NOT to harm anyone involved in the trial. He hasn't done that. There is rumors of him secretly doing the exact opposite and issuing orders to some insurgent groups from within jail, whether this is true or not who knows but he has not asked for no harm to come to people involved in the trial even once so I think that says a lot.

He is not getting a fair trial because of the situation in Iraq plain and simple. No one believes the Bush lies, its appearantly obvious that we have absolutely zero control over the insurgency and we cannot guarantee anyones safety. They are practically having to beg lawyers to even work for the prosecution. There has been what now, I'd have to check to be sure but I know its at least three or four, lawyers for the prosecution tracked down by insurgents, stopped on their way to work, dragged from their cars and executed. There has been at least one attempted assassination of one of the judges. The Iraqui people want justice and want to see saddam get his trial too, but they're afraid and not many want anything to do with it.

Whether saddam has anything to do with it is debatable, but whether he likes it or not, the insurgency is loyal to saddam, and they are far from being removed from the equation. I don't think anyone really believes the Bush bullcrap that we are winning the war on the insurgency, anyone that listens to any news source for more then an hour can see that is total crap. The insurgency has more control over the country then we do, and until that changes, saddam will never get his fair trial.